Friday, June 11, 2010

Who Cares About Pregant Women?

Whenever reproductive justice is debated among anti-choicers and pro-choicers, the question of who really cares about pregnant women comes up very often. I don't know why I have to go over this. Even anti-choicers know that the anti-choice movement does not care about pregnant women. Some of them care about fetuses, I'm sure, but I'd bet that most of them don't care about anyone but themselves. But, just for the hell of it, I'm going to entertain this question. Who really cares about pregnant women?

When Angie Jackson tweeted about her abortion, how did anti-choicers react? Who were the ones who called her a whore, a slut, a murderer, a skank, a baby killer, a self-centered bitch, a ho, and a hooker? Who were the ones who sent her (and are still sending her) death threats? Uh, not pro-choicers.

When a rape survivor tells her story of her rape and when she says that the only reason she's alive today is because she didn't get pregnant, because she surely would have committed suicide had she been forced through a rape pregnancy, how do anti-choicers react? Who are the ones who completely ignore everything that she has said and tell her that everything would have been fine and dandy if she were violated for another nine months? Who are the ones who recognize the fact that she'd be dead today if she had gotten pregnant and go on to show their apathy for life? Yet again, not pro-choicers.

When the subject of birthing rights comes up, how do anti-choicers react? Who are the ones who claim that women don't need birthing rights, they already have the right to give birth, ignoring the fact that many women are forced or pressured into having unnecessary c-sections and are not given adequate information about their birthing choices? Not pro-choicers.

When a woman shares her abortion story and states that she does not regret her abortion, how do anti-choicers react? Who are the ones who tell her that her experience and emotions are invalid? Who are the ones who, having had known this woman for a time period of five to ten minutes, tell her that they know that she'll regret her abortion (because they apparently know her so much more than she knows herself)? Hmm, yet again, not pro-choicers.

When the subject of bodily autonomy comes up, how do anti-choicers react? Who are the ones who say that, when a woman becomes pregnant, it's no longer her body? Who are the ones who openly state that pregnant women don't have their own bodies, and that their bodies are property of fetuses (or the government)? Not pro-choicers.

Anti-choicers, get real. Stop kidding yourself. This isn't about pregnant women for you, because if you truly cared about them, you'd be pro-choice, and you know that.

Surely, an anti-choicer will come along and tell us of a pregnant woman who wanted to go through her pregnancy, who an anti-choicer kindly helped by offering her a place to stay, buying her clothes, etc. It's great when a person helps a pregnant person who wants to go through her pregnancy, I applaud that. But, to me, if you treat every woman who has or wants to have an abortion like crap (see examples above), it doesn't matter how many pregnant woman you provide a place to stay for or how many pregnant women you buy maternity/baby clothes for. You can't treat some pregnant woman well and then pretend that you care about all of them.

One out of three women has an abortion in her lifetime. You either treat all pregnant women with respect or you lose credibility, and guess what antis? You've lost all of your credibility when it comes to loving pregnant women.

51 comments:

  1. I actually had someone try to tell me that bodily autonomy was a conspiracy theory created by the pro-choice movement. I'm glad that sex change clinics don't have this much bullshit to deal with. My bodily autonomy allowed me to take hormones and get sex reassignment surgery. A pregnant woman's bodily autonomy should allow her to seriously ask herself the question "Where do I go from here?"

    Well, I'm glad you called these dishonest people on their own bullshit. I mean, yes, it's self-evident but ever since I've known you and been reading your blog, you have been willing to speak what needs to be said - that abortion isn't a dirty word to calling anti-choicers on their bullshit.

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  2. The problem that anti-choicers have is that they fail to realize that abortion is a service that pregnant women use. Sometimes, abortion is medically necessary. The governor of Alaska has just vetoed the expansion of state-sponsored health insurance for children and pregnant women, because it provides funds for medically necessary abortion. If the governor and other anti-choicers really believed that embryos and fetuses were children, they'd support increased funding for prenatal care that helps pregnant women bring those children to term. But they only have an interest in "saving" the embryos and fetuses who are inside women who don't want to go to term. To the children that will eventually be born, anti-choicers say "Screw you."

    http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=alaskas_peculiar_battle_over_abortion

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  3. Nice post. I agree with everything youre talking about. I think these issues are the most frustrating when it comes to talks concerning abortion. Its really clear that anti-choicers dont care about the women OR the fetus, but simply control. When questions about support geared towards children after birth come up, the anti choicers arent still there. Its the force of keeping a woman were she is-a disrespected tool of reproduction in our society. I recently wrote about Motherhood and Patriarchy at http://theironymark.blogspot.com/ and you might find it interesting. I don't think that people care about pregnant women either way, whether they become mothers or not-both are shunned from society and marginalized.

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  4. Again...I think it's great for you to be so passionate about something. But I'd also really like to see something besides all the bashing of the pro-life movement. Tell us both not just what you like about the pro-choice movement, but also what you don't like.

    Educate. Because as I said above, it's very hard for me to take a person seriously when they can only defend the one side. BOTH sides do good...both sides do harm. You may feel that one side does better than the other, but you must also be willing to admit the negatives of it and the positives of others. That's how great leaders work. That's how people make CHANGES in the world.

    We ALL need to work together, because changes DO need to be made in abortion care, the care of women, and the care of WHAT a woman decides to CHOOSE for herself, her body, and her baby.

    I hope that you understand this wasn't meant as a bashing, but a respectful comment. And I do agree with the above comment that I don't think society really cares about women either way, whether they become mothers or not. There are a few groups (on both sides) that DO, but I think the majority of pro-life and pro-choice don't. Other wise we would see a lot more supportive organizations out there for women who have abortions, have their babies, and/or give them up for adoptions.

    The whole thing still just needs work. And always talking about what DOES work doesn't help change what DOESN'T work.

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  5. The thing is, you are writing from a very one sided point of view. You are on the extreme pro-choice side and by that I mean, every thing you write makes it seem like pro-choice land is all wonderful and perfect.

    But it's not. And neither is the pro-life land.

    I can name a few pro-life places here where I live where there are pregnancy centers that offer counseling to women who suffer from PAS. Also, in regards to support after the birth of a child, these pregnancy centers offer FREE diapers, clothes, formula, etc to the mothers. All they are required to do is take some classes (how to change diapers, looking for a pediatric doctor, etc). Also there are support groups held here for girls who have given their babies up for adoptions. Also, many churches in the area run 'mother homes' which is where a woman can go to have their baby and can live there even after the baby is born until they get on their feet.

    While I will not say that there aren't any, I personally have yet to see a planned parenthood do that here in my community. http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-center/findCenter.asp

    Both Planned Parenthood and Pregnancy Centers offer MUCH needed services. I think that BOTH care about women, but in different ways. One could argue that PP doesn't care about women because they give them abortions, but then no follow up counseling for those that need it. (Speaking from experience here) Or no support system for those mothers who choose to keep their babies or give them up.

    As someone who talks about a negative experience regarding abortion, I get hushed under the table by pro-choice people saying that I'm a minority and that I'm just trying to hurt the pro-choice movement.

    No!! That is NOT what I want. Here is what I'd like to see...

    Everyone must look with skeptical eyes about those trying to find only the positives in abortion, as well as those looking at only the negatives. Now, you can criticize me for always trying to bring forward the negatives of abortion, and I will accept that, but I do so to show BOTH sides (since you are showing the positive). If those of you who always bring forward the positive will also accept that your singular position is harmful too. We must combine our efforts and continue to struggle together to solve this problem, not stand on the "correctness" of our own thoughts to the point that we cannot see the long-term effects of that short-sided view.

    It is most certainly your choice being that it is your blog to write about how "stupid" pro-life people are.

    But let's face some REAL issues....women are still dying from abortions in 2010 even though they are legal. Yes, pro-life people are doing things to out law abortion (giving sonograms, etc), but pro-choice doctors/facilities AREN'T educating patients and practicing above standard procedures!!

    A lot of Pro-choice people are upset with those women who have had a negative experience with abortion and are trying to silence them. They refuse to accept PAS as a REAL syndrome!! That's hurtful to women who are suffering from a REAL condition!! I didn't even know about PAS, but once I learned about it I saw that I was suffering from MANY of those symptoms. These women need to be recognized, not pushed into a corner. This condition needs to be addressed so that those who are suffering can find HELP and not feel ashamed and alone.

    Also, regardless if a pro-life person goes undercover and lie to Planned Parenthood, how they respond to the situation is SCARY! The pro-choice community should be OUTRAGED by some of the things certain PP are doing. (and it goes vice versa with pro-life and lying pregnancy centers). Some of the things that are being done are so wrong and need to be fixed! Lying to girls, pressuring them, not reporting RAPE, etc. It's VERY harmful to the credibility of the pro-choice movement.

    And the fact that women are still dying from legal abortions...UNBELIEVABLE!! EVERYONE should be pissed about that.

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  6. "I can name a few pro-life places here where I live where there are pregnancy centers that offer counseling to women who suffer from PAS. Also, in regards to support after the birth of a child, these pregnancy centers offer FREE diapers, clothes, formula, etc to the mothers."

    Do these places have websites? Also after all the horror stories I've heard about these places including a friends experience, I don't really believe you.


    "They refuse to accept PAS as a REAL syndrome!!"

    Neither does the American Psychological Association. It would irresponsible to push a diagnosis thats not recognized by actual mental health professionals.

    "A lot of Pro-choice people are upset with those women who have had a negative experience with abortion and are trying to silence them."

    I'm aware that some women have had bad experiences, what most pro-choicers object to is someone using their one bad experience with abortion as an excuse to take away that choice from others.

    "And the fact that women are still dying from legal abortions...UNBELIEVABLE!! EVERYONE should be pissed about that."

    Do you have any evidence that this is a widespread problem? I know that even in countries where abortion is legal there is still the occasional death, just like with other operations and procedures (yet no one suggests that those should be banned), from either bad doctors or poor after care.

    I'm guessing you never post rants like this at pro-life blogs and websites.

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  7. I'm linking to an obvious pro-life website. Regardless of that fact, these women died as a result of abortion. That fact alone is the reason that I'm giving the link. These women shouldn't have died...they should be able to get a LEGAL abortion in a SAFE and FOLLOWING THE RULES place. But for whatever reason, the place they went to DIDN'T follow protocol and now these women are dead.

    http://realchoice.0catch.com/library/deaths/plannedparenthooddeaths.htm

    "I'm guessing you never post rants like this at pro-life blogs and websites. "

    Understand this...I DO go to both places and offer my input. BOTH sides need a change. If you will re-read my above statement, I never make it sound like pro-life it THE right choice. I say both sides have good and both sides have bad.

    I stand by comment above:
    Everyone must look with skeptical eyes about those trying to find only the positives in abortion, as well as those looking at only the negatives. Now, you can criticize me for always trying to bring forward the negatives of abortion, and I will accept that, but I do so to show BOTH sides (since you are showing the positive). If those of you who always bring forward the positive will also accept that your singular position is harmful too. We must combine our efforts and continue to struggle together to solve this problem, not stand on the "correctness" of our own thoughts to the point that we cannot see the long-term effects of that short-sided view.

    The long-term goal should be SAFE, INFORMED, RESPECTED, ACCURATE, and EXTENSIVE FOLLOW UP CARE for women who are pregnant and looking to make a choice. REGARDLESS of what a woman chooses to do with her body, pregnancy, and baby...there needs to be all of the above for them. And I've yet to see pro-choice OR pro-life offer that!!!!!

    Allison

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  8. "I'm aware that some women have had bad experiences, what most pro-choicers object to is someone using their one bad experience with abortion as an excuse to take away that choice from others."

    The thing is...even if only ONE woman has a bad experience, it should be looked upon with sadness and a desire to help her and a passion to make it better for the next woman. But the reality is there are TONS of women who have had a negative experience with their abortions. Maybe if the pro-choice movement recognized these women and pushed for the changes themselves, then the women wouldn't feel a need to side with the pro-life group.

    Many women have a negative experience because they were pushed into the experience, not given equal detailing on their options, not given true information about the procedure and/or the development of their baby, not treated with respect in the abortion clinic, etc. This is ALL aspects that the pro-choice and pro-life people should be pushing to change.

    Women who are pregnant are scared and feel pressured to make a decision quickly. Until you have been in their shoes, you don't know what it feels like. So when you are lied to, misinformed, and treated badly...then yeah, the "pro-choice" movement may seem bad.

    Which is why I advocate for WOMEN...NOT pro-choice or pro-life...but for WOMEN. I want women to be informed, sure of their decision, treated with respect during the process, and given ANY and ALL follow up care afterward if they need it.

    "Do you have any evidence that this is a widespread problem? I know that even in countries where abortion is legal there is still the occasional death, just like with other operations and procedures (yet no one suggests that those should be banned), from either bad doctors or poor after care."

    I'm sorry, but the death of ONE woman alone is enough to piss me off...and should be to both pro-choice and pro-life!!! Any type of neglect needs to be looked into...and the same goes for ANY procedure. If a Doctor who was performing breast implants were doing it wrong and killing his patients, then yeah, I'd demand that he be looked into and would like to see a change in the system.

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  9. Actually Hannah, I DO. I am for a change for the WHOLE system, if you didn't get that from my above post. I clearly stated (and have stated in previous posts) that BOTH sides have good and bad in them.

    "Do these places have websites? Also after all the horror stories I've heard about these places including a friends experience, I don't really believe you."

    http://cobbstreetministries.org/services.html

    http://www.pauldingpregnancy.org/prenatal-parenting-classes_12.html

    http://www.cobbpregnancyresourcecenter.org/FreeServices.aspx

    Those are just a few places that offer the above mentioned (FREE place to live, food, clothes, etc). Again, I'm stating that these places do good just like PP. I'm not saying that they are perfect, but that they offer services that that PP doesn't, but that the community needs. BOTH PP and pregnancy centers offer MUCH NEEDED services.

    You mentioned that you've heard horror stories about those places. Which is why I stated above that NO PLACE is perfect. I could tell you a bunch of horror stories about PP (including my own personal one), but I still believe that they offer much needed services. I'm sorry you don't believe me...I have no reason to lie. I hope that the above links are enough proof for you that they do offer those services.

    "Neither does the American Psychological Association. It would irresponsible to push a diagnosis thats not recognized by actual mental health professionals."

    True. But PPD, PTSD, Anxiety, Depression, etc all were not recognized by the APA at one point- in fact, some until very recently. Doesn't mean they didn't exist before the APA declared them a problem. Sometimes it takes a while for science to catch up. I am in a group of women who meet because we suffer from PAS. Sadly, I hate that it will take an 'organization' to publish it as a syndrome before EVERYONE will realize that it is REAL and that there are many women silently suffering from it and need help. All I want is for no WOMAN to have to suffer like I did for so long. I'm not trying to use it for or against ANY abortion agenda. Just to be EDUCATED about it. And the fact is, it IS real. Women aren't stupid...we know how we feel. And in my opinion, Pro-Choice would probably get more credit if they would offer the same PAS support group. But by Planned Parenthood saying that it is "invented" by pro-life groups is a slap in the face to all of us women who DO suffer from it. Seriously, a SLAP IN OUR FACE. Like we are making up our HURT!! :-(

    After my abortion I suffered with many of the symptoms for years. When I finally saw an article on PAS I was happy to have a name for what I was suffering from.

    (See the below link for PP HURTFUL response to what PAS is...
    http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/ask-dr-cullins/cullins-ab-5508.htm)

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  10. Just a question to the anonymous: Can you confirm the rumor that occasionally women die from gestation/birth?

    The 'positive' of abortion was that I was no longer knocked up.

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  11. Allison-

    When we say that PAS isn't a real syndrome, we're not saying that women can't regret their abortions. Some women regret their abortions. That is a basic fact of life. Women are not copies of each other. All pro-choicers that I've met have recognized that fact.

    I don't see anything wrong with PP's response re: PAS.

    My problem with CPCs/anti-choice organizations is not that they don't offer abortions. It's that they are against a woman's right to choose abortion. Planned Parenthood isn't against a woman's right to go through a pregnancy (and if they were, they'd be just as vile as any anti-abortion group).

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  12. PCG-

    Pregnancy Centers may be against abortion, but that's their right as part of living in the USA to not support it. And PP isn't against the woman's right to go through a pregnancy, but they offer no support to women who do, which is why Preg Centers ARE important. That's my only point, not that preg centers are better than PP.

    "anti-choice organizations continue to spread the false idea that it is common for abortion to have severe, emotionally negative effects. The fact is that anti-abortion groups have invented this so-called post-abortion syndrome to further their efforts to make abortion illegal and unsafe"

    Um, he basically states that I suffer from a made up syndrome. So I just made up all the symptoms?? Even though I had no affiliation to the pro-life community... so how did they make it up for me? And while maybe he thinks "common" is the majority, I believe the minority have a voice too. And there are THOUSANDS of women who suffer from symptoms of PAS, otherwise there wouldn't be PAS support groups popping up everywhere. Sounds pretty "common" to me.

    You cannot deny: http://www.afterabortion.com

    What PPs response to PAS is basically saying is, "YOU LADIES ARE ALL LIARS!!" and "YOU CAN REGRET YOUR ABORTION, BUT NO OTHER EMOTION CAN BE ATTACHED TO IT!!" That's hurtful. I'm sorry that no one else can see that.

    One of my problems with PP is that they refuse to state in counseling women that they may not be one of those women who feel relief. They may be one of those women who feel intense deep pain.

    And while I believe that the pro-life community uses PAS for their agenda, to state that they made it up is like saying to soldiers that PTSD is made up by anti-war activists.

    Regret does not even begin to cover what I felt after my abortion. Have you tried reading the symptoms of PAS?? Regret is such a small part of PAS. People "regret" spending too much money on a purse. They don't become suicidal over it.

    I'm very saddened by the fact that I even have to argue this point. This is why so many women are siding with the pro-life movement. Because they are accepting their 'regret' and ALL the other severe emotional issues that they feel. They are offering support...even if it is to fuel their agenda, at least they are out there offering support. Again, I'm feeling like I have to argue on our behalf to the pro-choice movement!!!

    IT'S REAL!! IT HURTS!! WE JUST WANT YOU TO TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT!!

    To Critter: Why yes, as a matter of fact I can considering my best friend is a L&D nurse. I understand you had a positive experience. Wonderful for you!! Sadly, there are many of us who didn't. But thanks for understanding. :-/

    Again, I think you guys are missing the point. I'm not trying to take away abortion rights. I'm trying to CHANGE the system so that no one has to suffer like I, and the thousands of women out there, did. I'm trying to educate people on the behalf of us who are silently suffering.

    Allison

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  13. I wanted to throw in that here is Sherri Shepard stating that PP was pressuring her into having an abortion when she went. That doesn't sound like that PP was very supportive of her right to continue with a pregnancy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV1vcizvy94

    And this video shows PP pressuring a woman into having an abortion. Instead of just giving her the facts of her options, she's giving her opinion. THIS IS THE STUFF THAT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZMHJISI5yc

    Others you can watch:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MY9ZvQ0F2Y

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EatmoUdpoFs

    AGAIN...there are GOOD clinics. There are BAD clinics. Good PPs, bad PPs. Good Pregnancy Centers, bad Pregnancy centers. I realize that you could equally you tube some bad pregnancy centers. But this isn't a pro-life site, it's a site that I'm trying to educate on the fact that there are BAD, BAD, BAD PP clincs out there.

    As someone who has gone to a BAD clinic, EVERYONE needs to work together to GET RID OF THEM and make changes in the system so that NO ONE is PRESSURED, MISINFORMED, ETC. Women deserve better than that!! It's part of the reason why some women suffer from PAS.

    Allison

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  14. "Pregnancy Centers may be against abortion, but that's their right as part of living in the USA to not support it."

    I never said that they don't have a right to hold that belief. However, I still have the right to call them out for holding that vile belief. The belief that women shouldn't have the right to choose (aka, they shouldn't have liberty when they become pregnant) is hateful. That's not to say that a person doesn't have the right to believe hateful things.

    "Um, he basically states that I suffer from a made up syndrome. So I just made up all the symptoms?? Even though I had no affiliation to the pro-life community... so how did they make it up for me? "

    Just because people regret abortion doesn't mean that there's a real PAS. No one here is saying that women never regret abortion, and no one is saying that you were making up your emotions.

    "What PPs response to PAS is basically saying is, "YOU LADIES ARE ALL LIARS!!" and "YOU CAN REGRET YOUR ABORTION, BUT NO OTHER EMOTION CAN BE ATTACHED TO IT!!" That's hurtful. I'm sorry that no one else can see that. "

    I don't see anything in PP's response to PAS that even remotely implies that. There is no "wrong" emotion to feel after an abortion. Pro-choicers recognize this, the majority of antis don't.

    Again, no one is trying to say that your emotions are false or invalid. ANY emotion felt after an abortion is a valid one, whether it's regret, relief, joy, depression, etc. I would never tell a woman that her emotions regarding abortion are invalid. To do so would be, in my opinion, insensitive and cruel.

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  15. Then I don't understand how you can still claim: "Just because people regret abortion doesn't mean that there's a real PAS."

    So until the APA decides to admit there is a PAS, pro-choice people will just pretend there isn't PAS? Even though the APA took their time in admitting PTSD, PPD, Anxiety, etc??

    All the women who share the common symptoms of PAS, but there is no PAS? That just doesn't make sense. You say that you wouldn't tell a woman that her emotions surrounding her abortions aren't valid, but you won't give her emotions, that are common with other (though not all) women, a name??

    If women are suffering from common symptoms, and their symptoms are stemming from their abortions, then why cannot one connect that it is PAS? Because a bunch of Dr's (who once again, took their time in admitting the above, and once said that women orgasms were nothing but hysterical women) haven't officially given it a label?

    And I still have yet to see anyone admit that the pro-choice movement has some a**backward people working in it. I have still yet to hear anyone willing to speak up for the things that need to be changed from not only the pro-life movement, but the pro-choice movement. All I hear is "anti choicers" this and that. But what about the people and places who give pro-choice a bad name??

    No one is willing to admit there needs to be a change in the system...from both sides?? All you seem to be pointing out is what you disagree with me about.

    Interesting... maybe my opinions are wasted here.

    Allison

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  16. Planned Parenthood DOES offer short-term counseling for women who are going through unintended pregnancies. They have master's level professional counselors and social workers who help in the decision-making process and refer for abortion, parenting, and adoption services. Planned Parenthood workers offer parenting classes, either on-site or at another public building. Some Planned Parenthoods even offer advice and information on reproductive healthcare issues at people's homes. The difference between the counselors at Planned Parenthood and the ones at crisis pregnancy centers is that the counselors at Planned Parenthood are actual professionals bound by professional ethics and the law to be impartial helpers, which means they can't push an agenda without losing their jobs and/or facing criminal charges. Crisis pregnancy centers might (and that's a huge might) have a nurse or an ultrasound machine, but they do not offer any medical care whatsoever. They also have "counselors" who are not academically or professionally qualified and who are specifically trained to tell women what to do and how to think. Giving away diapers doesn't balance out the psychological trauma they inflict on unsuspecting women.

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  17. Every movement has its fair share of "a**backwards" (as you put it) people in it. I just don't see how those few people discredit the whole movement.

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  18. I'm sorry, but the death of ONE woman alone is enough to piss me off...and should be to both pro-choice and pro-life!!! Any type of neglect needs to be looked into...and the same goes for ANY procedure. If a Doctor who was performing breast implants were doing it wrong and killing his patients, then yeah, I'd demand that he be looked into and would like to see a change in the system.

    Just because someone dies while undergoing a medical procedure doesn't mean neglect took place. People are always going to die during and after medical procedures. Legal first trimester abortion is extremely safe, and 10 times more women die from giving birth than from having a legal first trimester abortion. I don't think it's worth getting pissed off over if the death results from a health problem that the patient had.

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  19. All the women who share the common symptoms of PAS, but there is no PAS? That just doesn't make sense. You say that you wouldn't tell a woman that her emotions surrounding her abortions aren't valid, but you won't give her emotions, that are common with other (though not all) women, a name??

    What would be the point of that? That would be like giving the positive feelings women have after having abortion a name. Anti-choicers are trying to diagnose women who have normal feelings (whether positive or negative ones) after an abortion with a mental disorder, and I think that's harmful. The label "post abortion syndrome" doesn't validate their feelings. It disorders them. I say, leave the women alone and let them feel what they feel. Whatever they feel, it isn't wrong or disordered. If they want to talk about their feelings after they have an abortion with a professional counselor, that's their choice. It's the same if someone feels sad after a loved one dies. Their feelings are normal. Even if they feel relieved or happy, that's normal too. Many people feel sad, happy, and relieved all at the same time when someone dies. We don't call these feelings "Post Death of a Loved One Syndrome," even though pretty much everyone goes through the same kinds of feelings after someone dies. It's just normal.

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  20. Never mind. We're on a crazy cycle. I'm not trying to discredit a movement. I'm trying to say a movement needs CHANGE! FROM BOTH FREAKING SIDES! I think it's unfair that you sit there and bash pro-life people when your own movement has people doing the same thing. (See videos above??)

    "Giving away diapers doesn't balance out the psychological trauma they inflict on unsuspecting women. "

    Rock on. But I guess PP pushing women into abortions is better right? Both suck in my opinion.

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  21. "Many people feel sad, happy, and relieved all at the same time when someone dies. We don't call these feelings "Post Death of a Loved One Syndrome," even though pretty much everyone goes through the same kinds of feelings after someone dies. It's just normal. "

    Why, you're right! So let's not call it postpartum depression after a woman gives birth. Or PTSD after a woman is raped. After all, it's just feelings. And feelings are normal.

    "Just because someone dies while undergoing a medical procedure doesn't mean neglect took place. People are always going to die during and after medical procedures. Legal first trimester abortion is extremely safe, and 10 times more women die from giving birth than from having a legal first trimester abortion. I don't think it's worth getting pissed off over if the death results from a health problem that the patient had. "

    No, but when it comes from a facility, doctor or a nurse who didn't follow proper medical protocol -like the "nurse" not being a REAL nurse, or Doctors who rush through the procedures instead of doing a professional job, or a Doctor who holds his patient down even though they change their mind, or a facility who doesn't monitor their patients while still under, etc.

    Most of the time, when a patient dies from ANY medical procedure, one can look and see that the medical staff made some sort of mistake. I have a family full of doctors and nurses. I hear of it happening all the time. They are human, they will make mistakes, it happens. But pure NEGLECT, is uncalled for and unbelievably wrong. And that's why unethical abortion clinics need to be closed.

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  22. You guys, I just want to clear up something.

    I've never ONCE said that "abortion is wrong", that "abortion should be illegal", or any other type of anti-abortion stance.

    I had a negative experience. I know many women who also had negative experience. That doesn't mean I'm out to make abortion illegal or un-accessable for women.

    I'm trying to make a change to a system to ensure that no one has to have the same horrible experience of being lied to about the development of her baby and pressured into something when she is crying and unsure of what she is doing.

    I'm trying to change a system to ensure that no one gets a bad doctor and messes up their insides so that they can't have any more children.

    I'm trying to ensure that when a 14 year old goes to get an abortion that the clinic follows the laws that are in place instead of handling it on their own.

    I'm trying to ensure that clinics don't send a girl home bleeding saying the abortion was complete, but then she finds a body part in the toilet.

    While it's great that other women are saying that they had such a wonderful positive experience, not everyone has. These are all real stories of real women that I know. They deserve that no one else have to go through what they (and I) went through. Bad abortion clinics need to shut down. Bad abortion workers need to be fired. Otherwise, it's giving the pro-choice movement a bad, bad name.

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  23. As a future abortion provider, my goal is to treat each of my patients with respect, to provide them with a comfortable environment, and to do my best to make each patient's experience with abortion as positive as I can.

    Obviously, not all doctors share those same goals with me. Not all doctors care about their patients. Of course bad abortion clinics should be closed, and of course bad abortion clinic workers should be fired. However, those bad clinics and those bad workers are the exception, not the rule. The anti-choice movement tries to make it out like every clinic, or most clinics, are nasty and horrible. I can't speak for other pro-choicers, but I can say for myself that I am sick of that.

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  24. Why, you're right! So let's not call it postpartum depression after a woman gives birth. Or PTSD after a woman is raped. After all, it's just feelings. And feelings are normal.

    You say this because you don't know what a mental disorder is. Almost every mental disorder diagnosis ends in "disorder" to imply that there are normal variations of these symptoms that people experience in certain situations. No counselor would diagnose a woman with depression if she simply feels sad after giving birth. It is perfectly normal to feel sad after giving birth, but it's not normal to feel depressed after giving birth. There's more to depression than feeling sad. There's more to post-traumatic stress disorder than feeling afraid after experiencing a traumatic event, like rape, even though probably every rape victim feels afraid after the event. That's normal. Not every rape victim feels traumatized 6 months after the event. But if a rape victim has a heightened startle response and extreme fear and flashbacks and nightmares 6 months after the incident, then she might have PTSD. There's no reason to diagnose or disorder someone's normal feelings after a troubling event. It's okay to feel sad sometimes.

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  25. FEMily-

    So you're saying that it's normal for a woman to get sick to her stomach and have anxiety every time she goes to the dentist because the tube that sucks the spit out of your mouth reminds her of the abortion suction? Or that around the time of June 9th EVERY YEAR she has nightmares? Or that it took her over two years just to be able to walk down a baby aisle in Target and not cry hysterically??

    That's not a "disorder" to you??

    If you go to www.afterabortion.com (which isn't prolife or prochoice) you will see on the message boards A LOT of women- some even 30 plus years later- still having nightmares, still having "anniversary syndrome," STILL NEEDING SUPPORT, etc. regarding their abortions.

    These women come to the board- and again some talk about their positive experiences with the procedure, but a negative experience/reaction afterwards, and ALL women who've had an abortion are welcomed and excepted- and it is HEARTBREAKING what they write MANY YEARS LATER.

    That doesn't seem like a disorder to you????

    Yes, it is okay to feel sad sometimes. But have you even researched what PAS is?? It isn't being "sad sometimes." Please stop dismissing these feelings we have as "sad." Because it is MUCH more.

    I'd challenge you to go and read the message boards. You have to register, but anyone can. If you can honestly read those boards and see what these women are writing, some years after their abortions, and can come back and tell me that that doesn't sound like a disorder to you then I'll leave you alone with your point of view.

    But do some research into it from those of us who are coming together and sharing our pain. Until you have walked in our shoes you cannot have a clue.

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  26. "If you go to www.afterabortion.com (which isn't prolife or prochoice)"

    Sorry Allison, but that's bull. "Abortion is the unchoice. Unwanted, unsafe, unfair". "copyright 1997 - 2009 Elliot Institute". "How to Put Compassion Into (Anti-Choice) Politics"."....a truly pro-woman, (anti-choice) society!"

    Not to mention their one-sided, anti-rape survivor view here: http://www.afterabortion.org/Victims/index.htm . Translation: "It's okay for you to be raped for 9 more months after the original assault, because WE know better than you!"

    Sorry, but saying that that website isn't anti-choice is just insulting. It's either a straight out lie or you've missed A LOT of the misogyny on that website.

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  27. PCG....you looked at www.afterabortion.ORG NOT www.afterabortion.COM

    .COM mentions that they have NO CONNECTION to .ORG

    The website you are referring to is NOT the one I sent you to.

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  28. Shown here that .COM is NOT associated with .ORG

    "Note: There is another abortion-related website, run by David Reardon and the Elliot Institute, found at www.afterabortion.ORG - the website you are on right now is www.afterabortion.COM, and is not affiliated with that website, or with David Reardon or the Elliot Institute - we just happen to have the same url, but with different suffixes. "

    http://afterabortion.com/about_pass.html

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  29. My mistake, Allison. I typed in "afterabortion" in my browser and "afterabortion.org" came up so I visited that one. I stand corrected!

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  30. I'm looking through afterabortion.COM right now and they do seem neutral. Sorry for freaking out on you like that :)

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  31. LOL...no problem! .ORG IS very one sided!!

    If you like it, maybe it can be added to your websites you like. :-)

    Allison

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  32. So you're saying that it's normal for a woman to get sick to her stomach and have anxiety every time she goes to the dentist because the tube that sucks the spit out of your mouth reminds her of the abortion suction? Or that around the time of June 9th EVERY YEAR she has nightmares? Or that it took her over two years just to be able to walk down a baby aisle in Target and not cry hysterically??

    That's not a "disorder" to you??


    You're not understanding what I'm saying. Anti-choice organizations try to make it like negative feelings that a woman has after having an abortion is evidence of a disorder. It's not. Furthermore, they claim that the extremely negative feelings after having an abortion is somehow different from the extremely negative feelings after some other unpleasant, possibly traumatic, event. There's no need to claim that a woman who is afraid to go to the dentist after having an abortion is suffering from a separate syndrome that is unique to women who have abortions. Think of it this way. Someone with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder could have been raped or watched someone be murdered or lived in a war-torn country and witnessed atrocities. There aren't separate names for each of the experiences I described. The experiences might be different and the way the symptoms are displayed may be different, but the symptoms themselves are the same. It all falls under the umbrella of PTSD. Or maybe they don't develop PTSD at all. Maybe they develop Agoraphobia or Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Maybe they don't develop any disorder at all. Nobody's denying that a woman can have a traumatic response after having an abortion. However, anti-choicers want everyone to believe that 1) a traumatic response is inevitable (if not desired), and 2) abortion is bad and scary and different (read: more evil than anything else one can experience). That's why they invented Post Abortion Syndrome. That's not to say that no woman anywhere ever experiences the symptoms that are outlined in Post Abortion Syndrome. It means that those symptoms are symptoms either of a disorder or environmental factors.

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  33. FEMily-

    Call it PAS, call it PTSD, call it whatever you like. That's not my argument. It needs to recognized though.

    Women need to be warned that they can possibly suffer from this. But not addressing the situation because you're afraid it will give the pro-life movement ammunition??? I'm so over the pro-life/pro-choice debate. I'm talking about educating women. I'm talking about saving women from what MANY of us are suffering from. If after being educated they make the choice to not abort...then so be it. If they choose to abort...then at least they were informed. That's what CHOICE is all about!

    A common thread of topic is that NO ONE TOLD THEM they would be feeling this way. and that NO ONE told them the truth about their developing (baby, embryo, fetus) And since it is obvious that there are A LOT of women who end up suffering from the same common symptoms RESULTING from their abortion- for many years afterwords- it needs to be addressed.

    There will always be women who seek abortions. That is evident since before it was legal women were seeking it. Educating women on the development of her (baby, fetus, embryo...again I don't care what you call it) should be EDUCATION, not a scare tactic. Educating a woman about the emotional side effects abortion can cause should be EDUCATION, not a scare tactic. If an educated woman then chooses to abort or not...then she's made an EDUCATED choice and is less likely to regret that choice.

    But leaving her in the dark is wrong. Because when she DOES find out the truth, she can crash HARD with all the symptoms listed as PAS. And then who can come in looking like the good guys to that girl? The pro-life movement. "See! I told you abortion was bad! Now you're suffering from this. But look, we have support groups to help you through this...."

    Which is why I've said before...I think a third party that has no affiliation to pro choice/life and that stands to make no money on whatever she chooses needs to be the one to come in and educate and answer all questions she has.

    Again...let me state...Education should be EDUCATION and not a scare tactic. If a woman chooses to abort or not...that's HER choice. I'm calling for education of abortion so that a woman WON'T end up suffering like MANY of us do. And the only way to lessen the numbers of women suffering from the PAS symptoms is through EDUCATION BEFORE HAND.

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  34. I just wanted to say that the important thing here is CHOICE!

    -There needs to be access to parenting options for women that choose to parent with a partner or alone. Classes, organizations that are non-biased and offer supplies to low-income families, and access to midwives, doulas, and the health care support the woman needs during her pregnancy.

    - There needs to be access to adoption services, both in the private and public realm. They should be easy to find, supportive, and meet the needs of the particular woman choosing to give her baby to a loving person/family for adoption. Counseling should be available for the woman pre and post adoption if she desires to utilize it.

    - There needs to be access to abortion services. The clinic and hospitals that provide these services provide medically-based, non-biased, peer-reviewed medical information for the women seeking these services. Counseling should be available pre and post abortion if the woman wishes to utilize it.

    While everyone has their own view and choice on what THEY would do, I think an ideal world would have all three options in stellar form for those that CHOOSE each one. We should all remember that not everyone is Christian/religious/etc and is entitled to their own choices with their health and reproductive organs. Just like I am not going to tell someone to have an abortion, no one should tell me not to.
    Equal access for all in what she decides is right for her.

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  35. "Call it PAS, call it PTSD, call it whatever you like. That's not my argument. It needs to recognized though. "

    it IS recognized. it is recognized as the emotional trauma endured by women who are left without any form of emotional support, are abandoned by those who are supposed to care for them, and quite often by those women who are victims if manipulated or forced abortion. this isn't a syndrome incompassing ALL women who choose abortion. that's just silly and completely unfounded. this "syndrome" is unique to women who previously had no support in their lives, previously had manipulative and/or abusive partners or families, and women who are mistreated by people they should have been able to trust because they chose to end their pregnancies. with that in mind PAS is NOT, and is very far from, an abortion syndrome. all of this discribes women who are ALREADY victims of emotional abuse, and that abuse persists through a time when they most need support.

    that said, f*ck PAS. if people want to show women that they care, stop fueling this fake syndrome and start seeing what these women are suffering for what it really is: EMOTIONAL ABUSE.

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  36. Jennifer-

    While I agree with some of what you mentioned, not all of it is true. You cannot put everyone who had an abortion and suffers from PAS in a box.

    "this "syndrome" is unique to women who previously had no support in their lives, previously had manipulative and/or abusive partners or families, and women who are mistreated by people they should have been able to trust because they chose to end their pregnancies."

    Many women suffer from PAS because yes, they are pressured into the decision of abortion by their parents, partner, and/or the staff clinic they visit.

    Many women suffer from PAS because the staff clinic lie to them about the development of their baby, and they find out later the truth.

    Many women suffer from PAS because the clinic they go to aren't fully disclosing their options either because A. they want their money from the abortion or B. they are truly uninformed about the adoption process and/or the (few) resources out there for a woman who chooses to raise her baby.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/19/nyregion/19bigcity.html?src=mv

    Which is why I feel strongly about education of clinics and the women that go there. So that women can make an informed choice.

    BUT!!!

    Many women who suffer from PAS aren't apart of the emotional abuse and had support before hand:

    A. My older half sister got pregnant in college. She was attending Georgetown University and decided to have an abortion. Her mother even offered to help her if she choose to keep it or give it up for adoption, but would support whatever she decided. She choose to abort. A month later she was at a cousins baby shower and that's when it hit her what she had done. She started having symptoms of PAS and they got worse when she got married and was told she could never have children. She is in her 40's now and has adopted a child from Korea, but her PAS symptoms are still with her.

    B. A good friend of mine gave a baby up for adoption when she was 21 years old. She kept the baby for a month, decided it was too hard to take care of and gave him up. She got pregnant again at 25. She decided to have an abortion because she knew she wasn't ready to have a child and didn't want to go through giving a baby up through adoption again. She had the abortion. She suffers from PAS because while she gets updates on her son she gave up, she feels emotional about the fact that she will never get to see the face of the baby she aborted.

    C. A lady in my PAS support group got pregnant while married and already had two kids. She and her husband decided to abort because they didn't want any more children. She said she started feeling horrible afterwords. They got their family picture taken a few months later and she broke down crying that there was someone missing from the picture. She begged her husband to get her pregnant one more time, to make up for the baby they aborted. They now have a third child. Yet, she still suffers from PAS.

    These women had the support from their families and partners. Yet they still end up with PAS.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Officially, here's the "Webster's Dictionary" definition of a 'syndrome':

    1 : a group of signs and symptoms that occur together and characterize a particular abnormality

    2 : a set of concurrent things (as emotions or actions) that usually form an identifiable pattern

    wikipedia-
    A familiar syndrome name often continues to be used even after an underlying cause has been found, or when there are a number of different primary causes that all give rise to the same combination of symptoms and signs.

    Again, I don't care if you call it PAS or not. But the symptoms that can possibly occur from a woman having an abortion needs to be talked about with women considering having an abortion. AGAIN, I stress...not as a scare tactic, but as education. I know that many women will never experience a PAS symptom. But MANY will.

    Education is key before hand and support is key afterwords.

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  37. You'd be surprised at how many women still find themselves pro-choice even after suffering from PAS.

    I think the main thing we want to see is a change in the system. If PAS sounds too pro-life for you, then let's call it PPAF: Possible Post Abortion Feelings. Because the thing is PPAF can last for a month, a year, 20 years, or until you die. It's something that needs more support and education from the community.

    Allison

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  38. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  39. Also, all of the ProLife centres I have in my area provide none of what the CPC's in your area provide and, in fact, have been reported to go out of their way to MAKE women feel uncomfortable. The associations that do provide abortion services ALL provide what you say your PP didn't. And the stories I've heard are pretty much the same everywhere. Hmmm....

    Btw, surgical association doesn't automatically compute into abortion association. If I fear pens because of certain dental equipment that was used on me, that's the regret of having to have the surgery being exposed, not the regret of the removal of the condition I went there for, itself. Thanks.

    I hate surgery. I would have an abortion that I would not regret, however, if I did get pregnant, even though I would regret having to have the surgery, itself. Do you get the difference, *now*?

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  40. Wow...

    Well, Free woman...that would be YOUR experience and not EVERYONE's experience. You can tell me till your blue in the face how YOU would respond and how you would THINK that and expect OTHER's to respond. But not EVERYONE will respond that way. And I speak from PERSONAL experience, not your hypothetical ones...

    Do YOU get that *now*?

    "And the stories I've heard are pretty much the same everywhere. "

    Oh please. You can youtube an undercover crappy PP just as easy as you can a PC. I've never claimed one was better than the other. I just stated what was available in MY area and that I think they BOTH offer much needed services.

    But thanks for the kind of snarky response.

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  41. You know what? Actually forget it. Minus PCG and one other, I haven't gotten a SHRED of support. All I'm getting is people, who have never walked a mile in my shoes or probably have ever sat down to talk to someone who is still hurting emotionally from their abortion, tell me that I don't fit into their "box" or into what they've heard an "expert" tell them, so certainly I'm wrong.

    You make it sound like I'm an enemy just because I give a different point of view.

    Some women have an abortion and feel relief and are okay. OTHERS of us feel guilt, feel like we killed our child, and suffer. And there will be women who feel a mixture between the two. You can't tell a woman what's right and what's wrong to feel.

    Sadly, until ALL women are educated about all their options and what's going on with their pregnancy, they won't know what side they'll fall on until after they have already made their choice. And sucks for them if they were uneducated and pressured into abortion and become educated after having an abortion and decide that the information is too much to bear now.

    I don't care about prochoice or prolife. I get this crap all the time. Some prochoice people tell me that women don't REALLY regret their abortions and suffer. Some prolife people tell me that I'm a murderer.

    Both comments hurt my feelings equally and leave me (and others like me) stuck somewhere outside of this debate just looking for support in our feelings.

    I'm only for helping women NOT suffer like I, and many others, do. Not to get into a prolife/prochoice debate. Not to stop a woman from having an abortion. GOT THAT??

    I've never once said anything about abortion being wrong or taking away a woman's right to choose. All I've ever wanted was for women to be EDUCATED about abortion so that later on down the road they won't end up sitting next to me in a PAS group crying her eyes out.

    Facts still exist, even if they are ignored.

    The truth is...I give up. Go ahead and think that the prochoice movement is all hearts and flowers and all women will be thankful for their abortions. You're so right. There's nothing wrong with what some abortion clinics are doing at all. And ONLY PC's are evil, evil, evil. Because you have this box, and obviously there is no in between.

    But I know there is an in between. I know the good and bad that both sides have. So I try and educate both sides so that a woman NEVER has to feel like I do.

    But again, those of us that suffer are getting ignored. It's sad to me that so many of you don't want to hear what those of us who are suffering have to say to help make prochoice a BETTER system.

    Thank you PCG for being respectful and understanding of the suffering some women go through.

    To the rest of you, I just hope that if you ever meet a person in real life who is suffering from their choice of having abortion, that you wouldn't be so dismissive of their "fake syndrome" feelings.

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  42. I'm really sorry, Allison :(

    I think people were getting caught up in the PAS debate and forgot who we're talking to- a real person with real feelings who has experienced real trauma. Regardless of our stance on whether or not we should call it PAS or PPAF or PTSD, we should be sensitive to the trauma that other people have experienced. Always.

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  43. Wow....

    Here all I was talking about was enforcement over diagnosis, Allison, so I think you comPLETEly missed my point. Diagnosis over enforcement hurts people more than it helps them, just as it would have hurt my mother and father after each of their two surgeries. After all, we already ackNOWledge those feelings and we've said so. Diagnosis simply puts people into niches and would entail all other forms of regret being so diagnosed, after all. If you hadn't realized it, I'm a woman with real feelings, too. Thanks.

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  44. Sorry Free woman, have to disagree. Diagnosis may put people into niches, but then at least there would be more help available to them.

    I struggled with it for years and was RELIEVED when I heard of PAS...felt like I was normal. And it was nice to meet other people who shared the same emotional hurt that I did.

    More support groups, more awareness, more ways to heal from their feelings if the "professionals" would give it a name. I don't see how that hurts people more than helps them.

    PCG- It's easy to get caught up in something we feel passionate about. And we want others to feel the passion and understanding too. This subject is so "touchy" that it's hard I think for people to really talk about it. :-)

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  45. It has definitely hurt my father and mother. Which is what I was saying in my earlier post. So my and my parents' feelings should be ignored? Make that a big resounding *no*, perhaps...?

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  46. And, again, you are putting a diagnosis on something that would have to be applied to every other situation, but isn't, for one plausible reason or another (several of which have been mentioned, here). Why not just let the woman feel what she feels and give her the support that is needed, and enforce that policy, rather than telling her what she needs to feel in order to be diagnosed in such a way? Thanks.

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  47. I know diagnosis helps some people, but it is a double-edged sword. If one doesn't fit into the diagnosis (which are always medically accepted), then one can fall through the cracks as has been the case with my mother and father. Focussing on giving something a diagnosis takes away attention from really focussing on helping people through the next stage, besides.

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  48. FW
    I don't know the situation with your parents, so I cant comment on that at all.

    I don't see how you think I'm trying to tell a woman how she needs to feel in order to be diagnosed a certain way. I think ANY negative emotions that surround having an abortion should be addressed & supported. Calling it SOMETHING like PANF (post abortion negative feelings) or whatever certainly makes it easier for a woman who is suffering from common emotional, physical, etc trauma find a place to go.

    I think you are still missing my point. All I'm asking is for education of women BEFORE making ANY choice.

    When a woman finds out she is pregnant, she she should be informed all the facts regarding her pregnancy, not false information like some places give.

    Before a woman makes ANY choice, she should be asked what she would ideally like to do. If she has people surrounding her who don't support that-parents, the father, or even the person who is counseling her, then she will be more than likely be swayed to make a decision that she didn't want to make-causing REGRET for life.

    That goes for abortion, adoption, and keeping the baby.

    Before a woman goes for an abortion she should be told that if she has doubts now, that chances are she could suffer from severe emotional trauma afterwords.

    & whatever a woman decides, she should be given information on support groups on both sides so she can go to what suits her best if needed (Happy aborted, Not Happy aborted, Happy adoption, Not Happy adoption, etc) Then at least she wouldn't be roaming around for years & years with this huge emotional package on her and wonder why no one told her of these feelings.

    Just like if a woman goes to give her baby up for adoption, if it's not what she really wants to do, it can cause severe emotional trauma afterwords.

    While there ARE centers in the US that do ethical practices regarding a woman during this sensitive time, TOO MANY are just shuffling women in, taking their money, giving them abortions & sending them on their way. Or lying to them about the development of their baby. Or not giving them accurate information about their other options.

    I have the SAME problem with adoption agencies who practice the same type of behavior. There are adoption agencies who don't fully explain open and closed adoption to women and they get the short end of the stick. Or if the woman seems unsure about adoption, they'll pressure her into it with untruths & such. I advocate for these women too & would like to see a change in the way certain agencies do their practices. Since I'm in the research stages of adopting a baby, I'm very appalled at how some agencies go about the whole process.

    Are all adoption agencies bad? No. But there are TOO MANY that are. Are all abortion clinics bad? No, again. But too many are. Again, who suffers?? THE WOMAN.

    Sometimes BOTH parties are only worried about that money. There needs to be a change in this system, for the sake of the woman!!

    Which is why I would really like to see a third party who gains no money from whatever a woman chooses, who has accurate information, who can help her find the resources she needs for whatever she chooses, etc. This would lesson women who regret their choice...whatever that choice would be.

    There are support groups for women who regret their decision of adoption. I wouldn't care what they call their support group, even though I advocate adoption. Because I understand that not all adoptions are done the way they should be & that who ends up suffering? Not me. Not you. Not the agency. Not anyone, but the woman.

    Not all people who go to AA are addicts. They may be more of the severely abusing alcohol type, but not addicted. In the long run it's not the NAME of the group that matters. It's the SUPPORT you get in there from people who are STRUGGLING just like you, even though it may be in different forms.

    & same goes for women of abortion who regret it.

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  49. "Focussing on giving something a diagnosis takes away attention from really focussing on helping people through the next stage, besides"

    You will have to explain what you mean, because I don't understand it.

    One of my children has been extremely sick for over six weeks now. Since he has no diagnosis, the doctors have been giving him treatments that are stabs in the dark and aren't working. Until he can be diagnosed with something, how can he truly be able to get better? How can you fix something if you don't know the CAUSE of it??

    So if a woman is always crying on June 9, can't walk past the baby aisle without freaking out- sure you can treat the depression and anxiety. Lord knows I was put on anti-depressants and anxiety medicines through out the years. But if you don't get to the ROOT of the cause (having my abortion) then you are only scratching the surface. It wasn't until I found out about PAS that I was able to get to the root of all this and have not had to take depression or anxiety meds since. Did I have every symptom? No. Did I share some of the symptoms? Yes.


    "If one doesn't fit into the diagnosis (which are always medically accepted), then one can fall through the cracks as has been the case with my mother and father."

    If you are MISdiagnosed, then that is a problem. But correctly diagnosing the problem should lead to the correct forms of treatments...even if those treatments may vary from person to person.

    Or maybe the person isn't being diagnosed correctly because it is a "new" type of problem that hasn't been formally put in the books, so to speak. So in that case one would need to "discover" the real root of the problem.

    Like my son, they are treating him for the diarrhea and vomiting he has been doing for 6 weeks. But they are masking the underlying issue that is going on. Until we know WHY he has those problems, we CAN'T move onto the next stage.

    Again, I don't know the case with your mom and dad, so I'm just trying to give a general answer. Maybe if you could elaborate more I could see your point??

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  50. When anyone has the audacity to tell a woman what to do with her body, I smite them with my mind's eye. I have seen too many children born to neglectful/abusive parents to even consider the idea that women be forced to carry a baby full term if it is not their wish. I would rather those that chose to end their pregnancy, do so safely. THAT should be a RIGHT.

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***PLEASE READ***

Due to constant spam and derailing coming from a few antis, I am now making this blog a "safe place". This does not mean that I won't allow opposing views. It means that I'm not longer going to allow hateful or unrelated/spammy comments. This will continue on until the anti-choice spammers get bored with harassing me and the people who post here, and is especially relevant when it comes to the topic of rape. I hope this doesn't deter any respectful people from commenting. :)