I've sure you're all familiar with the anti-choicers who say things like "I don't support Roeder, but Tiller was a murderer!" or "I don't support Roeder, but I sure do understand where he was coming from!" They're everywhere. These kind of comments infest blogs like Jill Stanek's blog and Operation Rescue. It's very telling of the "pro-life" movement. Very telling indeed.
To me, the "I don't support Roeder BUT.." people are just as bad as the people who openly support what he did. They're like rape apologists, in a way. It's not much different than saying "I don't support rape, BUT she really shouldn't have been wearing that skirt" or "I don't support rape, BUT it was partially her fault for flirting with him beforehand". Rape apologists are pro-rape, and the antis who make excuses for Dr. Tiller's assassination are pro-murder. Let's look at some examples. Let's look at this comment, posted on Jill Stanek's by Joe on April 2, 2010 4:44 PM. Joe starts out by saying this:
"I do not support what Scott Roeder did."
That's fine and dandy, but you can totally see the murder apologism coming, can't you? He goes on to say:
"However, the person he killed was not an innocent human being. The person whom he killed had killed 60,000 human beings. 60,000!"
AHA! THERE IT IS! Didn't take you long, buddy.
"Scott Roeder understandably believed that something had to be done to stop this evil." and "He didn't kill for his own benefit, he did it to save the lives of the unborn. He may in fact have saved unborn live" (emphasis mine)
And here he goes on to portray Roeder as the hero. You, my friend, are one reason why abortion providers live in constant fear of being murdered. By law, you may be innocent, but in your heart, you should know that you have blood on your hands.
"It is a mistake for our movement to demonize people like Scott Roeder. Criticize what he did, but understand why he did it. Since he killed someone who had killed a large number of people and would continue to do so, I felt that this should have been taken into consideration and he should have been given a lesser sentence."
Translation: I don't support what Roeder did, but I support what Roeder did.
Good job, Joe. This is why I use the term anti-choice, not "pro-life". By the way, no one on Stanek's blog objected to what you said. No one. Let's take a look at the comment section at Operation oppress-you to prove that you aren't the only one. This one was posted by Anne Robertson on May 31st, 2009 12:34 pm.
"While I would never encourage or condone such action I cannot pretend to feel sadness at his passing. He has taken the last infant life that he will."
I bet this came from a person who has claimed in the past that she feels sadness for every human life lost. Again, no one objected to this comment. No one. Think that one is sick? Check out this next one, posted by Sarah on June 2nd, 2009 10:03 am.
"I had just been praying every night for two weeks when it came to abortion to save their souls or slay them dead! and now Tiller is dead!"
At least she's not hiding the fact that she's pro-murder. She continues to say "God ALLOWED it to happen" .. And God allowed the Holocaust to happen. Humans have free will. Just because God allowed Roeder to murder an innocent man doesn't mean that that's what God wanted. Hell, God allows abortion to happen. Do you think God wants abortion rights? (I do, but that's besides the point.)
Now, Sarah goes on to say that she DOES feel sad that he was killed. Um.. what? Why were you praying for his death, then? Once again, not one soul in the comment section called Sarah out on her pro-murder stance. No one.
Scott Roeder is going to be in prison for the rest of his life, but as you can see, there are still terrorists and terrorist supporters. There is no doubt that there will be much, much more violence to come because of people like Jill Stanek, Troy Newman, Cheryl Sullenger, and their followers. No doubt at all.
Friday, April 2, 2010
30 comments:
***PLEASE READ***
Due to constant spam and derailing coming from a few antis, I am now making this blog a "safe place". This does not mean that I won't allow opposing views. It means that I'm not longer going to allow hateful or unrelated/spammy comments. This will continue on until the anti-choice spammers get bored with harassing me and the people who post here, and is especially relevant when it comes to the topic of rape. I hope this doesn't deter any respectful people from commenting. :)
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Another awesome post! #betterthanstanek 's blog full of hate and ignorance. Thank you for everything!
ReplyDeleteBrenda, are you saying we should support people who speak in favor of murderers (real murderers, not people acting within the law)?
ReplyDeleteI think you misunderstood her. She was saying that my blog is better than Stanek's, and that her blog is full of hate and ignorance. She's @MsBrendaBraquel on Twitter :)
ReplyDeleteOhhhh. Oops!
ReplyDeleteI've definitely seen a lot of antis holding him up as a martyr which is really scary. I don't understand why our government doesn't see these groups as terrorists.
ReplyDeleteAnimal rights activists have been labeled domestic terrorists for a long time. Antis participate in the same kind of harassment, and unlike AR activists actually cross the line and kill people.
But antis just get to keep the title of peaceful protesters and claim that they just have a few bad apples in the mix.
Any group who uses terror tactics to harass people who are simply legally doing their jobs are terrorists and I have a feeling if antis weren't predominately a Christian group, then the government would label them as such and actually do something about them.
"I don't understand why our government doesn't see these groups as terrorists."
ReplyDeleteBecause they know they cannot put over half of the country in jail. What do you want them to do with us? Kill us? We are not going away.
It's a free country, go picket somewhere and tell the world how proud you are of your abortion! I won't even call you a terrorist.
There's a big difference between regular protest & picketing and harassing & trying to scare people. That's why I compared it to the AR activists who have been labeled terrorists.
ReplyDeleteI'm an animal rights activist myself but I don't think that harassment & fear are productive ways to go.
And no, I'm not saying that all pro-life activists should be jailed (and seriously, killed?). But just like new laws have been put in place due to the violence of AR activists to protect those in animal related industries, I feel that laws should be put in place due to the violence of pro-life activists to protect those in the abortion industry.
Just as not all AR activists use terrorist tactics, not all pro-life activists do either. But both groups certainly have large subsets who do and I feel that the pro-life groups would be labeled as such just as the AR groups are if it weren't for their religious positions.
VoD,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think should happen to the cop that sprayed vinegar in Todd Burris' face?
Oops spelled last name wrong. Should be Bullis.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with being physical at all. Assault of any kind isn't cool. It seems that there's some debate about whether it was vinegar or just water. Obviously vinegar would be much worse but even if it was just water he was still out of line.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your reply.
ReplyDeleteShould the cop be called a terrorist?
That's a harder question for me to answer. Obviously not everyone who commits assault is a terrorist. Using the definition of terrorist as a radical who employs terror as a political weapon, I would say no. He was just a jerk who assaulted someone who he disagreed with.
ReplyDeleteThe difference as I see it is that the pro-life activists who both make and carry out death threats are using terror to further their political agenda. Their intent is to scare those in the abortion industry into submission, thus making abortion less accessible.
I am a pro-life activist. Anyone who makes and/or carries out death threats is not pro-life. You are right, they are terrorists. PGL constantly lumps all pro-lifers, activist or not, into the category of terrorist (now her speech is favoring the word hijacking for any prolifer that calls herself a feminist).
ReplyDeleteYou and she do not speak for me so you can't know what my intent is for picketing. It certainly is not to scare anyone. I am sorry if my right to protest frightens people but I have every right to peacefully voice my concerns on public property showing pictures of the realities of abortion if I so wish.
However, I absolutely do not have the right to verbally or physically threaten anyone. And spraying anyone in the face with anything is a form of violence as well. Thank you so much for agreeing that this cop is a jerk. I do agree that anyone acting like this is wrong, regardless of their views on any topic.
"I don't understand why our government doesn't see these groups as terrorists."
ReplyDeleteLiving in glashouses: pro-choicers do more than their fair share of violence be it killings, attempted murder, assaults, etc., against pro-lifers. Just that your liberal media wants to report when prolifers do it and act like your side never did anything of similar or worse nature.
"Antis participate in the same kind of harassment, and unlike AR activists actually cross the line and kill people."
ReplyDeleteHow many people? Like seven? In how many years since Roe v Wade? 37 years?
That's like 1 in five years in the whole USA, where millions upon millions of people are pro-lifers.
If pro-lifers are that terrotistic based on such actions of the few, what does that make your side?
Your side is living in glasshouses, since the crime rates on our side pale in comparison to those done by your side.
There are plenty of folks in the last 37 years that have killed those on pro-life side, too, not to mention also attempted murders.
"Good job, Joe. This is why I use the term anti-choice, not "pro-life". By the way, no one on Stanek's blog objected to what you said. No one."
ReplyDeleteBy the way, you are LYING.
Folks did indeed object to what Joe said, pro-lifers and otherwise alike.
You and she do not speak for me so you can't know what my intent is for picketing. It certainly is not to scare anyone. I am sorry if my right to protest frightens people but I have every right to peacefully voice my concerns on public property showing pictures of the realities of abortion if I so wish.
ReplyDeleteYour intent doesn't matter, and it's not your right to protest that scares people. Your presence scares women who walk past you, because they don't know if you're just some person with a sign or a murderer. Of course, this isn't your fault. It's the fault of murderers who don't respect the doctors' right to perform abortion and the women's right to obtain them. Maybe your sign should decry the violence and murder against abortion providers and vandalism against their clinics, instead of showing pictures that you claim are abortions but are most likely stillbirths and miscarriages (you probably don't intend to show stillbirths and miscarriages. You get the pictures from anti-choice websites and believe what they tell you against your better judgment).
Now that you know that the only thing you're doing by standing outside of the clinic is making women who seek legal healthcare services is scaring them, you're going to stop, right? Because you care about women.
The presence of abortion scares me FEMily.
ReplyDeleteYou scare me. That doesn't mean you don't have a right to be present wherever you want.
Whine. Whine. Victim. Victim.
Your going to stop promoting abortions because your views scare women, right? Because you care about women.
Thanks.
FEMily. Understand this. We are not going away. Nor will we be labeled as terrorists just because you are trying to put that label on us.
ReplyDeleteAbortion is Terrorism on the Human Unborn
"You get the pictures from anti-choice websites and believe what they tell you against your better judgment"
ReplyDeleteYeah, and the pictures of the Holocaust victims and photo of the little starving boy on the Food for the Poor mailing I received this week are doctored. And the lovely photos of pregnant women porn that your site directed people to are probably not real either. REALITY check Big Promoter of Female Rights.
Anyone with any common sense at all would never take your judgment seriously. Keep trying though!
"Whine. Whine. Victim. Victim."
ReplyDeleteWhat's the point of this, other than to incite anger?
As I said on my other post, this post is about ROEDER. You can keep on debating abortion, but I'm not going to help you derail any longer by feeding the fire. Have a happy Easter.
Yeah, and the pictures of the Holocaust victims and photo of the little starving boy on the Food for the Poor mailing I received this week are doctored.
ReplyDeleteNobody said anything about doctoring photos. Miscarriages and stillbirths are real things, and photos of them exist. There's nothing stopping people from taking pictures of miscarriages and stillbirths from medical textbooks and calling them abortion, simply to spread lies at the expense of people's emotions. I don't like the fact that you've been duped any more than you will, once you come to realize that you've been lied to for a long time about an issue you care about. Compare the photos you get from those websites and the descriptions of the types of abortion on those same websites. The photos show intact embryos and fetuses, which is more consistent with an embryo or fetus being expelled rather than it being suctioned or extracted like in an abortion.
And the lovely photos of pregnant women porn that your site directed people to are probably not real either. REALITY check Big Promoter of Female Rights.
I already explained this on my blog a couple of weeks ago. The blog How to be a Pregnant Lady was written by a woman who goes by the name August Dreamt who was trying to get pregnant with the help of fertility treatments. She moved the blog without my knowledge, and someone else bought the domain name. It's not uncommon for pornographers to do this, since it's a way for new people to stumble upon their site by accident when they thought they were looking for something else. BlogCatalog's archives confirm this http://www.blogcatalog.com/user/augustdreamt . The description of her blog and the picture of the homepage are very inconsistent, as you can see. And she doesn't seem to realize that pornographers bought her domain name, since she links to the site on the About This Blog section of her blog (which, incidentally, hasn't been updated in a long time). Unless you think she's a giant porn addict too, then you'll see the misunderstanding.
And I'm a promoter of all women's rights, not just the female ones.
It does not matter what an unborn child looks like at all. It's not an issue to argue about. You either think human life begins at conception or you don't. Science has proved human life begins at conception so why does it matter what humans look like at any stage. It doesn't. A human is a human is a human. Does it make your conscience feels better about killing/advocating the killing of the unborn if they don't look what you think humans should look like? You are the one perpetuating the lies. You would so like to believe that the pics shown of aborted fetuses are not real. Even abortionists have stated they are real. I have pics of my children before they were born. What is in the picture if not a human? Your denial is absolutely unbelievable. Do you really think all women abort within days of finding out they are pregnant? Would this ease your conscience?
ReplyDeleteRegarding FEMily!'s use/nonuse of porn.
ReplyDeleteShe doth protest WAAAAY too much.
"As I said on my other post, this post is about ROEDER."
ReplyDeleteI agree that Roeder deserved what he got- that life sentence (I am opposed to the death penalty).
Punisher
I for one do see you as a victim. The fact we strongly disagree on abortion and have heated debates (to put it mildly) does not change what happened to you, not the fact you were victim of a heinous crime.
ReplyDeleteOur prayers are with you and your recovery.
Punisher
"AHA! THERE IT IS! Didn't take you long, buddy. "
ReplyDeleteOne slight problem: there are folks that are murdered, that you would have no problem saying while it is wrong for that person to be murdered, the person was no hero, but a wicked murderer.
Jeffrey Damner. Heard of him. A serial killer. He was murdered in jail.
None of us, I would hope, approve of him getting murdered in jail.
But the fact something heinous happen to him does not make his actions before that any less heinous.
By such logic, those who had him jailed and those who call for him to be jailed or sentence him to be jailed for his actions are guilty of his murder.
It does not follow.
We don't see Tiller as a hero, but a murderer. But just because we see him as such, we do not believe we have the right to take the law into our own hands, nor the right to murder others who do things we find heinous.
It is like saying abolitionists were responsible for the murderous acts of John Brown against slaveowners, because they disliked slavery and said it was evil, so Brown acted on the rhetoric rather than go through legal means.
Punisher
Spot on ProChoiceGal. You are the one working for God, because you come from a position of compassionate reasoning.
ReplyDelete("infants" ... what crap!)
More strength to you.
"("infants".....what crap!)"
ReplyDeleteWildwoolychild, infants are no more crap than you are shit.
Oh dear god, I thought "lifers" would be out saving "baybeeeees" and not posting here. Interesting, so this is what they think is a good use of their time. That's telling.
ReplyDelete